MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-04-21

2009-04-21T00:45:47  <dreimark> comments in melange are back
2009-04-21T00:47:21  <dreimark> gn
2009-04-21T00:55:13  <ThomasWaldmann> gn
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2009-04-21T08:54:31  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
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2009-04-21T11:42:24  <dreimark> moin
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2009-04-21T15:06:10  <devilsadvocate_> moin
2009-04-21T15:06:31  * devilsadvocate_ returns from a nuclear reactor exam
2009-04-21T15:06:52  * dreimark plays with centos currently
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2009-04-21T15:22:52  <xorAxAx> http://www.flickr.com/photos/caterina/3270176074/
2009-04-21T15:22:54  <xorAxAx> :)
2009-04-21T15:23:00  <xorAxAx> devilsadvocate_: what are you studying?
2009-04-21T15:23:20  <devilsadvocate_> xorAxAx: my major is physics
2009-04-21T15:23:23  <xorAxAx> ok
2009-04-21T15:23:29  <xorAxAx> minor?
2009-04-21T15:23:35  <devilsadvocate_> the course itself was an interdepartmental elective
2009-04-21T15:23:56  <devilsadvocate_> dont have a formal minor, but ive done some courses in cs and molecular biology
2009-04-21T15:24:00  <xorAxAx> ok
2009-04-21T15:24:26  <devilsadvocate_> most of time is actually spent doing other things, though, so dont know how much that means
2009-04-21T16:08:33  <ThomasWaldmann> summer! :)
2009-04-21T16:20:31  <dreimark> blue sky and t-shirt time :)
2009-04-21T16:20:58  * devilsadvocate_ grumbles about the summer in the tropics
2009-04-21T16:22:16  <dreimark> regularly rain ?
2009-04-21T16:22:25  <devilsadvocate_> i wish
2009-04-21T16:22:44  <devilsadvocate_> where i am is landlocked continental climate
2009-04-21T16:23:01  <devilsadvocate_> last summer there was a dust storm that brought down a ~40 year old tree
2009-04-21T16:23:04  <TheSheep> devilsadvocate_: wanna swap?
2009-04-21T16:23:21  <devilsadvocate_> TheSheep: depends. what do you have? :P
2009-04-21T16:23:34  <dennda> former germany
2009-04-21T16:23:39  * dennda runs
2009-04-21T16:23:53  <dreimark> not fast enough
2009-04-21T16:24:04  <TheSheep> dennda: actually Prussia
2009-04-21T16:24:08  <devilsadvocate_> 50 celcius is not uncommon
2009-04-21T16:24:10  <devilsadvocate_> here
2009-04-21T16:24:19  <TheSheep> devilsadvocate_: -10°C is not uncommon
2009-04-21T16:24:31  <dennda> i
2009-04-21T16:24:34  <dennda> want it hot
2009-04-21T16:24:37  * dreimark has had 57 in the DV
2009-04-21T16:24:44  <dennda> desert vallye?
2009-04-21T16:24:58  <dreimark> death
2009-04-21T16:25:00  <devilsadvocate_> hm. we go from ~2 C to ~50 C every year
2009-04-21T16:25:12  <devilsadvocate_> 57 is out of the question. sorry :P
2009-04-21T16:25:14  <devilsadvocate_> you win
2009-04-21T16:25:31  <dreimark> and in kiruna I have had -40
2009-04-21T16:26:52  * dreimark had that with some campaign work or by vacation. so it is not really to compare 
2009-04-21T16:44:19  <dreimark> devilsadvocate_: how often do you have 50 and what do you do on these days? Is everything cooled down by airconditions?
2009-04-21T16:45:20  <devilsadvocate_> dreimark:right now its probably around 40. soon it'll hit 48 or so and stay there for a couple of months
2009-04-21T16:45:25  <TheSheep> and do your chickens lay hardboiled eggs?
2009-04-21T16:45:33  <devilsadvocate_> on a few days it'll jump to 50, etc
2009-04-21T16:45:41  <devilsadvocate_> miminal to no rain for the 3 months
2009-04-21T16:46:09  <devilsadvocate_> if we are staying on campus during that time, we just go to some air conditioned lab or computer center or library and sleep there
2009-04-21T16:46:34  <devilsadvocate_> we (students) also dont really work in the days in the summer, mostly sleep all day and work in the nights
2009-04-21T16:48:37  <devilsadvocate_> when the summer ends, temperature will go down to 35-40 and humididty will go up to ~70%+, with not much rain to speak of
2009-04-21T16:48:48  <devilsadvocate_> thats when things get really sticky
2009-04-21T16:50:27  <ThomasWaldmann> http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/python/t124024625558 < interesting
2009-04-21T16:50:52  <ThomasWaldmann> esp. if 3to2 could work better than 2to3, due to less unclear semantics in the py3 code
2009-04-21T16:51:27  <ThomasWaldmann> (like e.g. with unicode vs str)
2009-04-21T16:52:34  <ThomasWaldmann> http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/python/t124024625817 < if that will be finished, could make some ground for another backend
2009-04-21T16:53:43  <dennda> ronny: ^
2009-04-21T16:54:41  <devilsadvocate_> nice
2009-04-21T16:54:54  <devilsadvocate_> (the pyVCAL one)
2009-04-21T16:55:09  <TheSheep> I think ronny didn't speak too well of that project
2009-04-21T16:56:58  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, now that debian has py 2.5 (and ubuntu will soon have 2.4/5/6 and 3 in 9.04) what does hold us back with requiring 2.5 for moin 2.0?
2009-04-21T16:57:16  <TheSheep> centos
2009-04-21T16:57:42  <ThomasWaldmann> (and some other $enterprise stuff)
2009-04-21T16:57:52  <devilsadvocate_> damn. theres always someone :(
2009-04-21T16:58:17  <ThomasWaldmann> otoh, we'll have moin 1.9 for a while
2009-04-21T16:58:29  <devilsadvocate_> 2.0 is atleast 6 months away, right? any chance enterprise* will upgrade by then?
2009-04-21T16:59:32  <ThomasWaldmann> devilsadvocate_: if there is some new release of some *EL*, maybe. And if they have already released, they maybe won't have moin2 packages anyway.
2009-04-21T17:00:26  <devilsadvocate_> this policy of 'stability by not upgrading as a religion' is a bit too painful, if you ask me
2009-04-21T17:00:55  <ThomasWaldmann> yes, esp. the *EL* stuff is often a pain due to this
2009-04-21T17:01:17  <devilsadvocate_> ThomasWaldmann: if that is the case, then its not really our problem. As in, *EL* ships with 2.5 and moin1.9, and manual upgrade to 2.0 is possible
2009-04-21T17:01:47  <devilsadvocate_> that is assuming they release before moin 2.0 and upgrade python
2009-04-21T17:01:50  * ThomasWaldmann remember having some major pain with sles9, a stoneage 2.6.9 kernel and kernel crashes all the time (and I just wanted to make a dualcore athlon work, nothing THAT fancy at that time)
2009-04-21T17:01:55  <TheSheep> "if it works, don't fix it" upgrading policy is rather understandable
2009-04-21T17:02:59  <devilsadvocate_> TheSheep: thats if everything is stable and non-changing. according to that policy they shouldnt bother with moin 2.0 either
2009-04-21T17:03:28  <TheSheep> devilsadvocate_: that's true
2009-04-21T17:03:52  <devilsadvocate_> sadly, even apis of <insert some core library here> are changing of late
2009-04-21T17:04:05  <TheSheep> marcurial :(
2009-04-21T17:04:42  <TheSheep> mer*
2009-04-21T17:05:02  <vpv> this says it might still be a year until RHEL6, http://lwn.net/Articles/286885/
2009-04-21T17:07:24  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: where is that list student appl menue?
2009-04-21T17:11:30  <dreimark> ok looks like reading all projects
2009-04-21T17:13:53  <dreimark> http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/python/t124024631352 if that is done I hope it will replace the latex parsers
2009-04-21T17:14:37  <TheSheep> yup
2009-04-21T17:14:49  <TheSheep> well, you can use mimetex even now
2009-04-21T17:15:47  <dreimark> htg, bbl
2009-04-21T17:19:20  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/PollAboutRequiringPython25
2009-04-21T17:21:27  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, I also put it on the front page, let's see what kind of feedback we get
2009-04-21T17:21:33  <dennda> what language features were added since $last_version_moin_requires?
2009-04-21T17:21:58  <TheSheep> sets
2009-04-21T17:22:03  <TheSheep> empty yields
2009-04-21T17:22:20  <TheSheep> some module renaming
2009-04-21T17:22:24  <ThomasWaldmann> 1.8 requires 2.3, 1.9 requires 2.4
2009-04-21T17:22:26  <TheSheep> rsplit
2009-04-21T17:23:00  <ThomasWaldmann> the 2.5 could be not that far fetched for storage because it has sqlite :)
2009-04-21T17:23:16  <dennda> oh
2009-04-21T17:23:19  <dennda> 2.5 has sqlite?
2009-04-21T17:23:28  <ThomasWaldmann> (assuming that the 2.5 stdlib sqlite WORKS for us)
2009-04-21T17:23:40  <dennda> i thought it was 2.6
2009-04-21T17:23:49  <ThomasWaldmann> ehrm
2009-04-21T17:23:57  <dennda> that'd be quite an interesting addition
2009-04-21T17:24:06  <TheSheep> well, 2.4 has sqlite too, just not in stdlib
2009-04-21T17:24:18  <dennda> i'm talking of stdlib of course
2009-04-21T17:24:35  <TheSheep> sqlite would allow to prune a lot of moin's code
2009-04-21T17:25:03  <ThomasWaldmann> http://www.python.org/doc/2.5/lib/module-sqlite3.html
2009-04-21T17:25:27  <TheSheep> I'm using it in Hatta, it's great
2009-04-21T17:25:57  <TheSheep> much faster than shelve and handles concurrency
2009-04-21T17:26:05  <ThomasWaldmann> so we would still have to bundle sqlalchemy, but at least not sqlite
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2009-04-21T17:34:43  <dennda> which really is a good thing
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2009-04-21T17:50:39  <ThomasWaldmann> http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/python/t124024629306 < hah!
2009-04-21T17:53:53  <dennda> :D
2009-04-21T18:07:11  <TheSheep> cool
2009-04-21T18:07:16  * TheSheep uses gajim
2009-04-21T18:07:22  * PawelPacana too
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2009-04-21T18:44:57  <amartani> About "Python requirements poll".. There's a thread on Django developers mailing list about the same topic, I think it is worth reading..
2009-04-21T18:45:37  <amartani> http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers/msg/0888b1c8f2518059?pli=1
2009-04-21T19:02:16  * dreimark too
2009-04-21T19:07:45  <dreimark> http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/asf/t124021710160
2009-04-21T19:09:02  <PawelPacana> 
2009-04-21T19:10:15  <dreimark> amartani: thanks for posting (I have not read it completely I agree with the conclusions)
2009-04-21T19:12:06  <ThomasWaldmann> ugh. /me also starts with the conclusions. :)
2009-04-21T19:15:13  <ThomasWaldmann> (it is mostly about dropping 2.3, not 2.4)
2009-04-21T19:17:36  <dreimark> http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/google/t124022446753
2009-04-21T19:18:26  <ThomasWaldmann> Second half of 2010: Django 1.4 is released and drops Python 2.5 support.
2009-04-21T19:18:34  * ThomasWaldmann has slight doubts about this. :)
2009-04-21T19:21:59  <amartani> well, I don't think his plan will be followed at all.. afaik, django 1.1 will be 2.3 compatible. but some of his points are valid.
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2009-04-21T19:36:07  <ronny> re
2009-04-21T19:36:32  <ronny> dennda: hu?
2009-04-21T19:36:47  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: forgot pyvcal - they are incappable and it sucks
2009-04-21T20:18:57  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2009-04-21T20:29:22  <ronny> atm they made up a random api that not tested against any vcs, and in particular it acts weird
2009-04-21T20:30:50  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: i asume what moin needs/wants is an general api to deal with creating commits, maybe create/merge branches
2009-04-21T20:31:17  <ronny> for stuff like user-sandboxes
2009-04-21T20:31:38  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, PawelPacana knows best :)
2009-04-21T20:31:41  <ronny> unfortunately none of the merge algorithms propperly does subdir-merges
2009-04-21T20:31:58  <ronny> PawelPacana: want to help with anyvc? ;P
2009-04-21T20:32:12  <ronny> bascially i have various somple needs in my head
2009-04-21T20:32:20  <ronny> but the complex stuff aint yet solved
2009-04-21T20:35:57  <ThomasWaldmann> that project name "pyVCAL" is somehow misleading
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2009-04-21T22:45:12  <ronny> sup
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